From the Ladies of Reddit: how "nice" guys are usually "not nice"

Growing up, I had the mistaken belief that I was a "nice guy", and that my lack of luck with women was because "women don't like nice guys".
This Reddit posting hit home, and felt like a slap across my face.  It is absolutely true:

2X - Can I rant about this "Girls don't like us nice guys" shit? : TwoXChromosomes:

Once again, a 'girls are stupid for not liking us nice guys' link is #1 on the comics subreddit and #1 on my main reddit homepage.

These things piss me off.

Why? Because I like nice guys. I like shy introverts. I mean, I'm a geek girl myself, so yes, I heart nerds.

And despite all that it was nearly fucking impossible to get a date in high school or college because I'm (frankly) ugly. I mean, ugliness and shyness/introvertness/nerdiness normally go hand-in-hand, right? These guys were never handsome, but by my being just as unpretty as they were, I was invisible. I was unclean.

So every time a guy is bitching and moaning that girls aren't flocking all over them, I want to slap them, because I showed interest in his type, time and time again, and got rejected because I lost the facial genetic lottery, just like he did.

Stop fucking whining that girls suck for not looking past your shy awkward exterior and seeing you for who you are on the inside; you never gave me that courtesy either.

[another commenter]

AHHH, I just read this from /r/bestof and I was hoping someone would have posted about it on 2XC.

Some of the comments (like that one) just don't get it. Women like nice guys.

The problem is that most people who think they're "nice guys" just aren't. In many respects, they're just as shallow as all the promiscuous "assholes" they detest: they'd fuck around if they could, and they put just as much weight on looks as anyone else. The main difference between "assholes" and "nice guys" is that the "nice guys" a usually a combination of: uninteresting, awkward, uncharismatic, not confident, not relatable.

The worst part is that they're (inherently!) jerks. Women actually tend to like nice men! If you, Mr. "Nice Guy," are going to assume that they don't, then that's just insulting and presumptuous. It's your way of saying, "women are dumb enough to not like men who are genuinely nice people." With a presumptuous attitude like that, it's no wonder that these "nice guys" don't tend to do so well.

I think it's a matter of evolutionary psychology. Evolutionarily speaking, it makes sense for men to detest the guy who gets women, hence guys tend to call promiscuous men "assholes." But the truth is, most of these assholes simply aren't assholes. They tend to be fun, interesting, sociable, and kind of nice people. Yes they're promiscuous, but the majority of men would be if they could. Not all of them, but the majority of them. (Men literally do have a larger sex drive than women.)

A rule of thumb: If you think you're being "nice," then you're actually being a jerk. If you think you're "the nicest person in the world, holy shit I am putting my heart and soul into pleasing everyone and not being annoying," then it means you're being kind of nice.

There's a lot of other things I could say... but I feel it would all come off as extremely presumptuous.

[another commenter]

The problem is that most people who think they're "nice guys" just aren't. In many respects, they're just as shallow as all the promiscuous "assholes" they detest: they'd fuck around if they could, and they put just as much weight on looks as anyone else. The main difference between "assholes" and "nice guys" is that the "nice guys" a usually a combination of: uninteresting, awkward, uncharismatic, not confident, not relatable.

Totally agree with all of this, except for the last sentence. Let me fix it for you...

The main difference between "assholes" and "nice guys" is that the "nice guys" expect that doing nice things for hot women alone should make the hot woman attracted to him, they think that "being nice" ought to be the only quality necessary to entitle them to a hot girl of their own.

And this is absolutely, something totally different from actually being a genuine nice guy. Genuine nice guys are nice because they are actually nice, not because they want to get something out of it. By contrast, the nice guys we are talking about are usually just as asshole-ish as the rest of us, except when in the presence of a hot girl that they want. That's the only time that they feel any real need to be any nicer than usual.

The problem is when you are nice as a manipulative move to get something. That's not truly nice. Truly nice is when you are kind for the benevolent sake of helping your fellow man, with no expectation to receive in return. If that's not what is motivating you, then you aren't a nice guy, and stop describing yourself as one just because you keep offering your shoulder for hot girls to cry on.

[another commenter]

I think a good rule of thumb is to try to judge how nice you are being based on how you treat someone you are not attacted to. If you are only nice to girls you lust after, you are not a nice guy.

Shamefully, as a young man, I was guilty of exactly this.  At least I have a mature viewpoint to offer my own daughter.

Messy Haired Boy and the Un-Kicked Ass

Image by Brymo via Flickr

There was a boy, with messy hair. Too many fears, not many friends. Stuck in his head, crazy thoughts.

He needed an ass-kicking.

He got an education, of a sort. He avoided women and work and women.

He needed an ass-kicking.

The Universe saw he needed an ass-kicking. And stuck a shoe in.

The boy rubbed his ass, sobbing.

The boy has changed a bit, ass hurts a bunch, but yet some messy hair,
but yet some too many fears,
but yet some not many friends,
but yet some stuck in head,
but yet some crazy thoughts,
but yet some avoid women,
but yet some avoid work,
but yet some avoid women.

Image by bunchofpants via Flickr

Boy is better, but not much better.

NEEDS MORE ASS-KICKING!

Recover from Bad Break-up - Man up: improve yourself first, men, the right ladies will follow later

Female readers, skip the first one. You can start reading at #2. I typed this pretty quickly, and the advice seems sound. I cannot imagine going too wrong following this advice after a bad breakup.

Image via Wikipedia

Sexist piece of advice - Women please ignore

[Female readers - please skip over this one] Get another piece of tail before you lose the "stink" of the last girl. Nothing is so attractive to a women on a man than the "stink" of another woman. Also, you will waste less time "crying over spilt milk" if you know you are under time pressure. Just a few weeks, at the very maximum. Notice I said "piece of tail", and not "serious relationship". You are not worthy of a "serious relationship" just yet(see #2). [Female readers - you can continue reading]

Man up

Work on your job, career, car, clothes, hair, domicile, physique, quality of friends, and also take care of your spiritual outlook. Assume the break-up was caused by your own lack - either in attractiveness or judgement. When you have objective evidence of progress in all these fronts, you are ready for another serious relationship. Not working on these, everyday, is another way of saying "I want to go back to being a thumb-sucking mommy's boy". Sure, you will back slide. But don't let yourself off the hook, and don't cling to your mommy's dress hem, you nancy-boy!

Image via Wikipedia

Make girls feel good, everyday

The last piece of advice is to not get bitter - a man who hates women is a vile thing. A man's job, if he is not already in a relationship, is to make women happy and feel good, in all sorts of ways, every day. Smile (gentlemanly nice smile), flirt (gentlemanly, nicely), and even ask girls out just to flatter them when they turn you down - giving a girl this gift of flattery is one of the nicest things you can do as a man. Go out on a limb, and tell a girl the nice things she deserves to hear. She will turn you down because she already has a man (let's say), but she will still be flattered by a gentlemanly compliment.

[Edit]

I get called out by Plinky wisenheimers StratPlayer and GWMJedi:

Gah! Sexy leaves me cold, Slutty every time!

Modern culture defines what "sexy" and "slutty" mean, and we have to deal with those definitions. I have no desire to put any label on anyone, so I will work backwards from what the definition of the words means to me.

Image by publik16 via Flickr

When modern culture says "sexy", what they seem to really mean is "objectified, ice-cold, obtuse, humorless, and creepily adolescent".
I prefer Women over Girls, maybe because I reject all those things. There is a whole realm of experience only available to people to have earned some maturity.
The sense of Fun and Self-Assurance are why I prefer "slutty".

Women get Upset

Women enjoy being unhappy. However, if you are a man and suffering from the symptoms of Asperger's Disorder, you can be cured of most of the pathologies by having a shrill female threatening you with removal of your face and eyelids, for the tiniest infraction. Frankly, I was, in my youth, unhealthily detached from the outside world. Now, that world, in the person of a Small-Form-Factor Female-Type, abuses me into awareness. To my eternal gratitude. (I have been so sarcastic, so long, that even I forget exactly when I am being completely sincere. A risk of sarcasm.)